Reasonable Movies About God

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Stewball
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Reasonable Movies About God

Post by Stewball »

THIS TOPIC IS CONTROVERSIAL--PROCEED WITH CAUTION....YOU'VE BEEN WARNED.

There are precious few movies, reasonably well made and in English anyway, which fit the category. [hide][spoiler]There are many, particularly older titles that deal with miracles, faith or revelation but that's mere hearsay.[/spoiler][/hide] Atheism is OK as long as it isn't focused on anarchy or the like. One of the reasons I'm bringing this up is to see if anyone knows any that are serious but (gasp) subtitled. I suspect there may be some, who if they submit anything, will be nothing but. :roll:

There are only 6 titles listed here. It isn't surprising that there are so few, and one of those is musical. As science progresses, presenting us with natural answers and evidence to questions that had previously been deemed to be the realm of religious faith, we tend to throw the baby out with the bathwater and reject God along with religion. We rush to judgement to get answers, so since God doesn't intervene, He/It must not exist. But science has yet to come up with the first bit of evidence that addresses the origin of the universe, pro- or con God. The least favorite thing for us as a species to do is to admit that we're clueless.

Please don't include movies that face the question and then just let it drop or fade into the background, like The Black Robe. It should offer some kind of insight.
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Inherit the Wind (1960)--The first and in many ways the most courageous, it's thinly fictional look at the Scopes Monkey Trial in 1925 brought teaching religion and suppressing science in the classroom to the forefront again. A classic with some outstanding performances.

Jesus Christ Superstar (1973)--Another classic, this first major rock opera (based on the 1971 Broadway production, which itself followed the music album in 1970). It uses an outstanding Webber-Rice score telling the story of the Passion of Jesus, based on the gospels but without the supernatural elements. The lyrics of the title song at the end ask the questions we've been asking, often in hiding, ever since.

The Devil's Advocate (1997)--It's important to remember that most of the film is a dream sequence, with the Devil being, for the protagonist, a symbol for temptation. As he declares at the end, "Vanity is definitely my favorite sin", but on introspection we realize that it's actually the justification for all sin.

Doubt (2008)--The specific problems that are a consequence of the abuse of power of an authoritarian church, lead the parochial school principle/nun to question the divine source of that authority. Those questions, given her commitment to that divine authority, lead to her soul crushing doubt.

Creation (2009)--Well made but little known independent film about the events surrounding Darwin's publication of On the Origin of the Species. He struggles with it due to his wife, Emma, being very religious and insists that she agree to its publication (profound historical speculation?). The death of their sweet, favorite daughter, due possibly to their being close cousins, points to natural selection, while there's no explanation for God's non-intervention on her behalf.

The Tree of Life (2011)-- The opening quote sets the stage, "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the Earth, when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job 38:4,7". In other words, it isn't your concern, which is the only answer any revealed religion can give to man's continual question, echoed by Job, Why?

ShogunRua
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Re: Reasonable Movies About God

Post by ShogunRua »

I absolutely adore Jesus Christ: Superstar, but is it a movie about God the way you're defining it?

I always looked at it as a fun, hip, historically anachronistic musical, which simply uses the story of Jesus to fill out the plot and setting. It doesn't have anything meaningful to say about Jesus, Christianity, or faith in general.

Stewball
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Re: Reasonable Movies About God

Post by Stewball »

ShogunRua wrote:I always looked at it as a fun, hip, historically anachronistic musical, which simply uses the story of Jesus to fill out the plot and setting. It doesn't have anything meaningful to say about Jesus, Christianity, or faith in general.


Yeah, it's all of that, but like I said, there were no miracles; and the questions asked in the songs are even more poignant today. The fact is, Jesus was, and almost certainly knew that he had been an epic failure. He and his (5000?) men took over and cleansed the temple for a day, but God didn't show as his faith had lead him to believe He would. Instead, the priesthood turns him over to the Romans to be crucified for insurrection (he probably did claim to be the Son of David/messiah)--leaving him on the cross wondering why God had betrayed him. I think it's a powerful portrayal of his story, showing it's complete lack of anything divine. He was monumentally courageous, and right to do what he did, but in the end, duped by a human fiction he'd come to believe was the word of God.

And he wasn't the only one, just the most famous. As Pilate says, "You Jews produce messiahs by the sackful!"

Interesting note: I've seen the stage production several times, and it's interesting how they used to end just like the movie, but the later productions have him ascending up off the cross, once even making a revivified appearance with his followers. Art paying the piper I suppose.

ShogunRua
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Re: Reasonable Movies About God

Post by ShogunRua »

Stewball wrote:
ShogunRua wrote:I always looked at it as a fun, hip, historically anachronistic musical, which simply uses the story of Jesus to fill out the plot and setting. It doesn't have anything meaningful to say about Jesus, Christianity, or faith in general.


Yeah, it's all of that, but like I said, there were no miracles; and the questions asked in the songs are even more poignant today. The fact is, Jesus was, and almost certainly knew that he had been an epic failure.


Well, with regards to my own beliefs, I have doubts whether Jesus ever even existed, let alone whether he was the Messiah. There is also some interesting speculation (in Robert Graves's "Claudius the God", for instance) that he was the illegitimate son of a Greek soldier in the Roman army called "Pantera".

It's impossible to dismiss Graves' claims either, considering that he was a professor at Cambridge in both Roman and Greek history, and a world-class expert on the subject. (Both Claudius works are chock full of amazing, deep historical research)

Stewball wrote: He and his (5000?) men took over and cleansed the temple for a day, but God didn't show as his faith had lead him to believe He would. Instead, the priesthood turns him over to the Romans to be crucified for insurrection (he probably did claim to be the Son of David/messiah)--leaving him on the cross wondering why God had betrayed him. I think it's a powerful portrayal of his story, showing it's complete lack of anything divine. He was monumentally courageous, and right to do what he did, but in the end, duped by a human fiction he'd come to believe was the word of God.

And he wasn't the only one, just the most famous. As Pilate says, "You Jews produce messiahs by the sackful!"

Interesting note: I've seen the stage production several times, and it's interesting how they used to end just like the movie, but the later productions have him ascending up off the cross, once even making a revivified appearance with his followers. Art paying the piper I suppose.


Okay, I understand what you are saying. However, I thought you meant movies seriously dealing with Christianity and faith. By the same token, I wouldn't include The Devil's Advocate, although it's not a bad film overall.

Inherit the Wind absolutely counts, though.

Stewball
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Re: Reasonable Movies About God

Post by Stewball »

ShogunRua wrote:Well, with regards to my own beliefs, I have doubts whether Jesus ever even existed, let alone whether he was the Messiah. There is also some interesting speculation (in Robert Graves's "Claudius the God", for instance) that he was the illegitimate son of a Greek soldier in the Roman army called "Pantera".

It's impossible to dismiss Graves' claims either, considering that he was a professor at Cambridge in both Roman and Greek history, and a world-class expert on the subject. (Both Claudius works are chock full of amazing, deep historical research)


Yes, I was aware of Pantera via mention of that theory by James Tabor. But I don't see why it would matter who it was, unless it did turn out to be God.
Okay, I understand what you are saying. However, I thought you meant movies seriously dealing with Christianity and faith.


No, thus the title, and I specifically excluded faith. I'm looking for reasonable movies about God.

By the same token, I wouldn't include The Devil's Advocate, although it's not a bad film overall.


That movie should probably be, by its philosophical importance, at the top of the list. It was a real epiphany for me. There's only one root of all evil....not money, fame or power, but vanity, the moral double standard. It justifies all the rest. Some of the monsters were a little off-putting though.

Inherit the Wind absolutely counts, though.


Yes, it is probably the most satisfying.

Jorg
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Re: Reasonable Movies About God

Post by Jorg »

Not sure if The Nun's Story (1959) has the themes presented the way you mean, but as an atheist I really liked this movie. Other movies that come to mind are Elmer Gantry (1960) and Agora (2009).. perhaps even Contact (1997)

Stewball
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Re: Reasonable Movies About God

Post by Stewball »

movieboy wrote:Bruce Almighty
Evan Almighty (not seen this one).


I liked BA, but it was going for the comedy and didn't really make any kind of point. I never saw EA either but it looks pretty silly and with a let down ending. I mean, c'mon, at least float the boat.

Jorg wrote:Not sure if The Nun's Story (1959) has the themes presented the way you mean, but as an atheist I really liked this movie. Other movies that come to mind are Elmer Gantry (1960) and Agora (2009).. perhaps even Contact (1997)


Thanks for those. I haven't seen TNS or Agora (which only opened in NY/LA, where'd you see it) but they're both a definite must see for me, and I need to revisit Elmer Gantry which looks better now than I remember. And while Contact was very good sci-fi, about the only contribution it made to philosophical argument was the suicide attack.

Those reminded me of two others that I missed considering, Leap of Faith with Steve Martin as a cynical, materialistic faith healer, with really good music, which ends up on an agnostic note; and Agnes of God. There's a definite nun sub-theme developing here, but it's message as I remember was negative or neutral as well (nothing wrong with that and well worth seeing, but absent the positive offering I'm looking for.)

I also considered and dismissed O Brother Where Art Thou. It's one of my 100s, and with superb satire (Everett vs the bag of hammers, the salvation scene, Tommy trading his everlasting soul to the Devil in order to learn how the play the guitar, etc. all ironically set to religious bluegrass musical counterpoints), but ultimately with no focus on a positive alternative.

PeaceAnarchy
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Re: Reasonable Movies About God

Post by PeaceAnarchy »

Stewball wrote:One of the reasons I'm bringing this up is to see if anyone knows any that are serious but (gasp) subtitled.

Yes, there are many, Bergman, Dreyer and Bresson come to mind as three directors whose work focuses on faith or lack thereof with very different styles. Bunuel if you're looking for something more pointed and satirical and focused on institutions (primarily the catholic church).

For more recent English language films I found The Sunset limited to be rather interesting if you don't mind the "two people in a room talking to each other" style, Tommy Lee Jones and Sam Jackson really make that aspect work.

Stewball
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Re: Reasonable Movies About God

Post by Stewball »

PeaceAnarchy wrote:
Stewball wrote:One of the reasons I'm bringing this up is to see if anyone knows any that are serious but (gasp) subtitled.

Yes, there are many, Bergman, Dreyer and Bresson come to mind as three directors whose work focuses on faith or lack thereof with very different styles. Bunuel if you're looking for something more pointed and satirical and focused on institutions (primarily the catholic church).

For more recent English language films I found The Sunset limited to be rather interesting if you don't mind the "two people in a room talking to each other" style, Tommy Lee Jones and Sam Jackson really make that aspect work.


I consider faith to be a diversion. But I will check out The Sunset Limited you mentioned (if they put it on VOD). I have seen Bergman's Seventh Seal and Wild Strawberries but I don't think they really had a point to make except "look at me". Death only has something to say if we're aware of the permanence of our mortality. Otherwise, chess is just a game.

Stewball
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Re: Reasonable Movies About God

Post by Stewball »

God on Trial--see full reviews.

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