Animation,Doc-s v actually Films

Ideas to improve Criticker and new feature requests, as well as announcements about new enhancements.
gabba2k7
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Animation,Doc-s v actually Films

Post by gabba2k7 »

Hi there...i went to check some PSIs (You->PSIs), entered in 'PSI: Predicted Score Indicator menu' year (1999-now), country (US ofc), genre (started with Action) ....and i think about half of the results i got were cartoons. (for 'type' i first had nothing, then chose tv-series. and got somewhat similar result)

and well...i found that uncomfy ...

i think all animation should be kept separately.
option (1) like Games. totally separate access 'menu' (with structure obviously resembling Film's one)
option (2) animation to be shown in your list only if u precisely permit that to happen (maybe to add additional checkmark [V] somewhere in You->PSIs->PSI: Predicted Score Indicator menu. so only when u put a checkmark it will be shown amongst non-animated movies/series )...

i know i can use more comprehensive search mechanisms (like You->PSIs->"Full list of your PSIs" [search menu], and Explore->Full database [search menu] where u can check [V] to (not) include animation)

but well...i want to use this quicksearch as well so i find it reasonable to have animation excluded from PSI: Predicted Score Indicator search by default until users click to include it.

PS: same for documentaries, see my next message with more reasoning
Last edited by gabba2k7 on Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:43 pm, edited 5 times in total.

livelove
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Re: Animation v Not

Post by livelove »

I would discourage such a change, because where to stop ??
it's a slippery lope: you don't like animations, but other users don't like documentaries, other users don't like horror movies ...
so where to draw the line ?

If any such change is introduced, it should be entirely optional.

gabba2k7
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Re: Animation v Documentaries v Other

Post by gabba2k7 »

it's a slippery lope

i dont see any slippery slope.
horror and other genres are to be chosen in "genre". ideally you choose - you get. but here comes issues with animation...and tnx for reminding, with documentaries. as they contaminate the search results distracting you from the content you are actually seeking.


but other users don't like

...it is not about liking. it is about reasonability and settings

reasonability - here i refer to my strong belief that most people who use criticker would want to pick "usual" audio-visual product. (work of fiction shot on camera) . films/series of any genre they want


let me explain on example of books (like analogy)
if you going to the store to pick a book, say some Sherlok Holmes strories, dont you expect it to be separated from
(a) books for 3 years old with big shiny pictures and simple words ("animation")
(b) real police department reports ("documentary")


settings- as i cannot choose to NOT to have animation & documentaries there.

i believe PSI: Predicted Score Indicator was intended to be somewhat random quick search option. but for me it became half-useless as it shows animation and documentaries. which are notably different (either because NOT fiction, or NOT camera movie). it is like sculptures amongs paintings... or electronic music amongst classical music. it is an art types, but somewhat different kind.

...
and generally speaking about animation (and well, reasonability)
i cannot be sure, but i believe 95% of such content should be either anime (imo those ppl who are into anime are very well informed without any cartoon base on what is what in that field. drawing types, underlying philosophies, etc, at least in my experience) ...or it is something for kids (who are, mildly speaking, not so picky and have no intention to search some rare cartoon they havenot watched or pick only action cartoons with good reviews from some internet sites-databases...at most they would google smth like top10 cartoons 2019 on search site)... (surely there are notable exclusions like Family Guy, South Park...but imo there are not so much of such content even if we include something mediocre)

and with regard to documentaries... never used criticker for that. i guess also because you need different "genres" for the sake of your succesfull search. yes, some may fall into crime, history, war, mystery, biography, sport, horror or music categories. but what about national geographics types? or science related ones? or something social and psychological? or about moviemaking and other arts? ...

livelove
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Re: Animation v Documentaries v Other

Post by livelove »

gabba2k7 wrote:
livelove wrote:it's a slippery lope: you don't like animations, but other users don't like documentaries, other users don't like horror movies ...

i dont see any slippery slope.

gabba2k7 wrote:tnx for reminding, with documentaries. as they contaminate the search results distracting you from the content you are actually seeking.
[…] I cannot choose to NOT to have animation & documentaries there.

You actually just proved my point:
You have just extended the scope of your initial request (animations) to documentaries as well.
Heck, you even changed the thread title accordingly, for crying out loud.

Following your bookstore analogy, the scope would need to be extended to children's films, too.

And many users love movies but hate TV-series, so for them we would need to extend the scope to TV-series as well.

And what about short films?


There you have your slippery slope and the difficulty to draw a line in the sand.
Last edited by livelove on Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gabba2k7
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Re: Animation v Not

Post by gabba2k7 »

You actually just proved my point


nope, i didnot. / ofc you have to expect that some movies shown in PSI-quicksearch results would have multiple genres including those u dont like or dont have mood for right now - but it still will be a list of fiction movies.

as i said, my suggestion "is not about liking. it is about reasonability and settings"

need to be extended to children's films, too.

would it be great for me to be 100% protected from having kid/family or, say, romance, musical genre films in quicksearch results? sure
do i propose such extention? - nope.
and it is not just because of reasonable expectation of seeing undesired genres or genre-hybrids (which probably most fiction movies are) but also because given undesired genres are not so widely spread or known (at least in my experience - it is hard to spot em there).

there are also factors which nullify or lessen the presence of undesired-genre movies
sometimes genres are incorrectly "assigned to" a movie or not really noticable/dominant to the extent contributing to your dislike
sometimes search does take your tastes into consideration and filters some amount of films with certain genres-affiliations.

...to sum up & repeat the issue: abovementioned genres of fiction films dont really create any problem, you can spot couple and ignore em because of your dislikes, but when u trying to go through your quicksearch, click titles after titles and see that 50% of 'films' in 'action' are cartoons, or 50% of 'films' in 'crime' are documentaries - that is the problem, Houston!

You have just extended the scope of your initial request


yes, i extended it because documentaries contaminate my search results as well. in a same way
both of them are inherently different from fiction movies. documentaries are NOT a fiction movie. animation is NOT a "camera" movie.

and while existing genre-options fit in fiction movies...anime-s and docu-s (despite fair share of overlap) do require bit different classifications for the sake of succesful searching. (which also supports the point that they need to be separated)

additionally, if we treat genres (in a correct way) as something describing a content essence, its leitmotif. (thriller: chiller or suspense, action: fighting or shooting, crime: investigating or plotting-stealing-dealing etc) will not choosing animation or documentary give you zero info? as it desribes "technical" form or style of content delivery. (so it would make much more sense to keep em at least in "types" and not in "genres", though yeah, ideally they should be totally separate)

And many users love movies but hate TV-series, so for them we would need to extend the scope to TV-series as well.
And what about short films?

i dont follow. how it is relevant to what im saying. it is "type", not "genre". cannot you choose for example type:Series, thus excluding films? and otherwise? and similarly for shortfilms? what problem do i miss?

however, maybe that will also help you to see the point...
ppl have an option to exclude irrelevant "forms" ("types") of (delivering) audio-visual content (just for example and somewhat analogy - lets say all ppl want same story. they can choose just different timestamp/length of material : 20mins short film, 2hours film, 13episodes TV-series)
i have no option to exclude irrelevant "forms"("genres") of audio-visual content (lets say i want any movie with certain content... i d like SherlockHolmes movies, not documentary about writers live or moviemaking insights, and not animated version for children. i cannot have that)

gabba2k7
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Re: Animation,Doc-s v actually Films

Post by gabba2k7 »

weird. why did messages dissapeared. however can see it via editing
still getting tons of useless caartoons. though yeah...didnot expect any fix as this project is not so alive, right?.

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